Julia Ioffe

  • Aired:  07/22/14
  •  | Views: 22,883

The New Republic's Julia Ioffe discusses Ukraine's ongoing conflict with Russia and the conspiracy theories surrounding the Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 crash. (6:51)

>> Stephen: WELCOME BACK.

MY GUEST TONIGHT IS HERE TO TALKABOUT RUSSIA AND UKRAINE.

PLEASE WELCOME JULIA IOFFE!

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)JULIA IOFFE, THANK YOU SO MUCH

FOR BEING HERE.

YOU ARE A SENIOR EDITOR AT THENEW REPUBLIC AND YOU'VE WORKED

AS A MOSCOW CORRESPONDENT FORTHE "NEW YORKER."

YOU'RE A NATIVE RUSSIAN EVENTHOUGH YOU'RE AN AMERICAN

CITIZEN, CAME HERE WHEN YOU WERESEVEN.

>> MM-HMM.

>> Stephen: WE ARE TALKING ALOT THESE DAYS ABOUT THE UKRAINE

AND RUSSIA AND THATRELATIONSHIP.

I KNOW THIS IS A HUGE STORY ANDI CARE ABOUT IT.

WHY IS IT HUGE AND WHY DO I CAREIN WAYS I NEVER CARE ABOUT OTHER

INTERNATIONAL STORIES.

I CAN IGNORE THE REST OF THEWORLD.

WHY HAS THIS GOT US ALL GRIPPED?

>> PEOPLE DIDN'T CARE ABOUT THISCONFLICT VERY MUCH AT ALL.

IT HAD COME OFF THE FRONT PAGESFOR THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS,

NOBODY WAS PAYING ATTENTION TOIT UNTIL A PLANE WITH CITIZENS

OF LIKE A DOZEN COUNTRIES WASDOWNED BY A MISSILE BY THESE

KNUCKLEHEADS FIGHTING IN THEREGION.

>> Stephen: IS THAT ATECHNICAL TERM?

>> THAT'S CORRECT. IT'S AN I.R.TERM.

>> Stephen: YOU HAVE SPENTTIME WITH THESE RUSSIAN

SEPARATISTS IN THE UKRAINE.

>> THEY CALL THEMSELVES THEVOLUNTEERS.

THEY CALL THEMSELVES THEPEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF DONETSK,

BUT THE SOLDIERS ARE CALLEDVOLUNTEERS BECAUSE A LOT OF THEM

JUST PICKED UP ARMS AND WENT TOFIGHT BECAUSE THEY

WATCH A LOT OF RUSSIAN TV.

>> Stephen: OKAY.

AND RUSSIAN TV HAS, LIKE, THESHOWS LIKE "WHO WANTS TO BE A

REBEL"?

WHAT'S ON RUSSIAN TV THAT MAKESPEOPLE WANT TO FIGHT AGAINST

THEIR OWN COUNTRYMEN?

>> FOR THE LAST FEW MONTHS,SINCE FEBRUARY, RUSSIAN TV HAS

BEEN TELLING THEM A FASCIST HASTAKEN POWER IN KIEV, COMING TO

RAPE WOMEN, EAT THEIR CHILDRENAND BURN THEIR LAND, SO A LOT OF

PEOPLE ARE GETTING SCARED,PICKING UP ARMS AND GOING TOFIGHT.

>> Stephen: IS THAT WHAT THEEVENING NEWS IS LIKE IN RUSSIA?

IS THERE A FREE PRESS IN RUSSIA?

>> NO, THERE ISN'T.

MOST RUSSIANS GET THEIR NEWSFROM THE TV AND IT IS MOSTLY

OUTRIGHT OWNED BY THE KREMLIN ORCOMPANIES WHO ARE LOYAL TO THE

KREMLIN.

SO THE HEADS OF THE MAJOR TVCHANNELS COME TO THE KREMLIN

ONCE A WEEK AND MEET WITH A GUYIN CHARGE OF TV AT THE KREMLIN

AND THEY SET THE AGENDA FOR THECOMING WEEK.

>> Stephen: OKAY.

YOU MET WITH IGOR BEZLER,NICKNAMED THE DEMON.

IS HE A GOOD GUY?

>> VERY SWEET(LAUGHTER)

HE'S ACTUALLY A BIT OF A LOOSECANNON, VERY MERCURIAL

>> Stephen: IS HE ONE OF THEVOLUNTEERS?

>> HE'S ONE OF THE LEADERS OFTHE VOLUNTEERS.

HE'S NOT EVEN A UKRAINIANCITIZEN, SO IT'S WEIRD HE'S

FIGHTING FOR THIS UKRAINIANMOVEMENT, FOR UKRAINE TO SECEDE

AND JOIN RUSSIA. HE'S A RUSSIANCITIZEN

HE WAS BORN IN SOVIET CRIMEA.

>> Stephen: HE'S ONE OF THELEADERS OF THIS GROUP WHO'S

TRYING TO BREAK AWAY.

>> MM-HMM.

>> Stephen: IN DONETSK?

AM I PRONOUNCING THAT RIGHT?

>> MM-HMM.

>> Stephen: IS THAT RUSSIANFOR "LITTLE DOUGHNUT"?

>> NO, I THINK BECAUSE OF THERIVER IT'S CALLED THAT.

>> Stephen: OKAY.

(LAUGHTER)IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, THIS BEZLER

IS ONE OF THE GUYS WHO THEUKRAINIANS SAY THEY HAVE A

RECORDING SAYING "WE JUST SHOTDOWN A PLANE."

>> UH-HUH.

>> Stephen: IS HE UPSET ORHAPPY THEY SHOT DOWN A PLANE.

>> HE'S A LITTLE FLUSTERED.

HE SWEARS A LOT AND SAID, MAN,SERIOUSLY, THIS IS 100% A

CIVILIAN PLANE.

WHAT'S INTERESTING IS HISHANDLER IN RUSSIA IS SAYING, OH,

THEY MUST HAVE JUST BEENDROPPING OFF THEIR SPIES.

>> Stephen: OKAY.

THERE ARE A LOT OF CONSPIRACYTHEORIES IN RUSSIA AS TO WHAT

ACTUALLY HAPPENED WITH THISPLANE.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE CRAZIERONES?

>> MY FAVORITE IS MALAYSIAAIRLINES FLIGHT 17 IS ACTUALLY

MALAYSIA AIRLINES 370 WHICH ASWE KNOW DISAPPEARED OVER THE

INDIAN OCEAN FOUR MONTHS AGO ANDWHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED IS IT

DIDN'T FALL INTO THE INDIANOCEAN.

THE AMERICANS TOOK IT, KILLEDEVERYONE ON BOARD, DRAINED THEM

OF THEIR BLOOD AND TOOK THEPLANE AND ALL THE CORPSES TO AN

AMERICAN MILITARY BASE, SHUTTLEDIT TO HOLLAND, RIGGED IT WITH

EXPLOSIVES -- IT'S VERYSIMPLE --

(LAUGHTER)-- AND BECAUSE TAKEOFF IS

COMPLICATED, THEY HAD LIVEPILOTS DOING THE TAKEOFF, THEN

THEY PARACHUTE OUT.

FIRST THEY PUT IT ON AUTO PILOT,PARACHUTE OUT AND THE PLANE

EXPLODES WHEN NECESSARY OVEREASTERN UKRAINE.

>> Stephen: THAT'S A PLOT FROMSHERLOCK, THAT'S ACTUALLY ONE OF

THE SHERLOCK THE SERIES.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Stephen: IS PUTIN GOING TOBE HARMED BY THIS?

BECAUSE WE'RE IMPOSING MORESANCTIONS, SUPPOSEDLY.

WE'RE DRAWING A LINE IN THE SANDOR AT LEAST A LINE IN THE CASH.

IS HE GOING TO CARE?

>> HE'S GOING TO CARE A LITTLEBIT, BUT HE SEES HIMSELF AS AN

HISTORICAL FIGURE THAT IS MEANTTO KIND OF RESURRECT RUSSIA,

BRING BACK ITS GREATNESS, SOHE'S WILLING TO TOLERATE

ECONOMIC PAIN TO ACHIEVE THEGOALS.

>> Stephen: IS THISNEO-SOVIET? IS IT NEO-CSARIST?

ARE THEY TRYING TO RECONSTITUTETHE RUSSIAN EMPIRE AND IF SO

SHOULD WE THROW BACK IN WITH THEAUSTRIAN HUNGARIANS AND GIVE

INDIA BACK TO THE BRITISH?

>> HE'S NOT VERY GOOD ATTHINKING LONG TERM SO HE TAKES A

LITTLE BIT FROM THIS AND THATPLAY BOOK, SO, ACTUALLY, WHEN

THE RUSSIANS TOOK CRIMEA AND THEWEST WAS ALL UP IN ARMS ABOUT

IT -- WELL, NOT UP IN ARMS, THEYDIDN'T DO ANYTHING -- THEY WERE

VERY UPSET ABOUT IT -->> Stephen: METAPHORICALLY UP

IN ARMS.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

ONE OF THE DEPUTY PRIMEMINISTERS OF THE RUSSIAN

FEDERATION SAID, WELL, WE'REGOING TO GET A TOEHOLD ON THE

MOON AND START COLONIZING THEMOON BECAUSE THE RUSSIANS ARE

WILLING TO SUFFER FOR A GREATIDEA.

>> Stephen: DO YOU THINKTHEY'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO

COLONIZE THE MOON?

DO YOU THINK THAT'S ACTUALLYGOING TO HAPPEN?

>> NO, I THINK THEY WOULD MESSIT UP ALONG THE WAY.

>> Stephen: REALLY?

YEAH.

>> Stephen: IT WOULD MAKE ITSO MUCH LESS ROMANTIC TO STAND

UNDERNEATH THE RUSSIAN MOON...

(LAUGHTER)BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T BE MADE OF

GREEN CHEESE, IT WOULD BE MADEOF BORSCHT.

(LAUGHTER)THANKS FOR JOINING ME!

JULIA IOFFE, THE NEW REPUBLIC!

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK!

Loading...