Glenn Greenwald Pt. 1

  • Aired:  05/12/14
  •  | Views: 42,535

"No Place to Hide" author Glenn Greenwald argues that the NSA engages in suspicion-less spying on Americans and non-Americans alike. (6:57)

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)>> Stephen: WELCOME BACK,

EVERYBODY, MY GUEST TONIGHTWON A PULITZER PRIZE FOR HIS

REPORTING ON THE NSA BUTIT'S OUR DATA THEY STOLE.

WHERE IS OUR PULITZER.

PLEASE WELCOME GLENNGREENWALD.

(APPLAUSE)I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS

FOR A LONG TIME.

>> GOOD, GOOD.

>> Stephen: I GOT MY KNIVESOUT FOR YOU, MY MAN.

>> READY.

>> Stephen: WELCOME TO THELION'S DEN.

ALL RIGHT, LET'S EXPLAIN TOPEOPLE WHO LOVE AMERICA WHO

YOU ARE.

AUTHOR OF THREE BEST SELLINGBOOKS, YOU'VE WRITTEN FORTH

"NEW YORK TIMES", L.A. TIMESAND THE GUARDIAN WHERE YOU

ARE REPORTING ON THE NSASCANDAL AND THE ED SNOWDEN

LEAK.

JUST WON THE PULITZER PRIZEFOR PUBLIC SERVICE.

(APPLAUSE)AND A POLK AWARD FOR

NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTING.

YOUR NEW BOOK IS CALLED NOPLACE TO HIDE, EDWARD

SNOWDEN, THE NSA ANDTHE U.S. SURVEILLANCE STATE,

ARE YOU LOOKING FOR A PLACETO HIDE?

>> I'M NOT

>> Stephen: REALLY?

>> BUT IF I WERE, THEREWOULD BE NO ONE IN THIS

SURVEILLANCE STATE, THETITLE ACTUALLY COMES FROM

FRANK CHURCH WHOINVESTIGATED THE

SURVEILLANCE STATE IN THEMID 70s AND FOUND SOMETHING

NOBODY KNEW WHICH IS THATTHE NSA WAS COLLECTING

ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OFCOMMUNICATIONS.

AND WHAT HE SAID WAS THIS ISAN EXTRAORDINARILY DANGEROUS

MACHINE THAT HAS BEENBUILDING, IF IT EVER TURNED

AROUND AND AIMED AT THEAMERICAN PEOPLE THERE WOULD

BE NO PLACE TO HIDE.

A VERY MAINSTREAM DEMOCRATICSENATOR WHO SERVED IN WORLD

WAR 2 AND TO THAT'S THETITLE OF THE BOOK BECAUSE

THAT IS IN FACT WHATHAPPENED IS THE NSA HAS

TURNED THIS APPARATUS ONAMERICANS AS WELL AS THE

REST OF THE WORLD.

>> Stephen: BUT WE DID NOTKNOW THE EXTENT OF THAT

UNTIL EDWARD SNOWDEN LEAKED.

AND YOU PUBLISHED IT, RIGHT?

>> CORRECT.

>> Stephen: OKAY, SO UNTILYOU TOLD ME THERE WAS

NOTHING FOR ME TO BEBOTHERED ABOUT.

>> IT IS TRUE.

>> Stephen: AREN'T YOU KINDOF THE PROBLEM.

>> I AM, I DO PLEAD GUILTY.

OF COURSE, IGNORANCE ISBLISS.

>> Stephen: YES!

>> AND THAT'S WHY YOU'RE SOHAPPY, RIGHT.

>> Stephen: YES, EXACTLY.

>> THAT'S WHY YOU'RE BEAMINGWITH JOY.

>> Stephen: I WILL FORGETEVERYTHING YOU SAID TO ME AS

SOON AS YOU LEAVE THE STUDIO.

>> BUT THERE IS A REASON WHYJOURNALISM IS PROTECTIVE OF

THE FIRST AMENDMENT, AND ITIS BECAUSE YOU CANNOT HAVE A

FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACY IFPEOPLE IN POWER CAN HIDE

FROM THOSE OVER WHOM THEYARE RULING THE MOST

CONSEQUENTIAL ACTS THEY AREDOING AND THE POINT OF

JOURNALISM IS TO SHINE ALIGHT ON THAT WHICH THEY ARE

TRYING TO HIDE AND THAT ISWHAT WE DID.

>> Stephen: WELL, LET'S TALKABOUT THAT WHICH THEY DID

USING YOUR FANCY WORDS.

OKAY, ED SNOWDEN, ED SNOWDENHAS REVEALED NATIONAL

SECURITY SECRETS, HAS FLEDTHE COUNTRY, A TRAITER TO

THE UNITED STATES.

WHY SHOULD YOU NOT BEPROSECUTED FOR AIDING AND

ABETTING AN ENEMY OF THEUNITED STATES.

>> THAT IS THE ARGUMENT THATHAS BEEN MADE EVERY SINGLE

TIME SOMEBODY COMES FORWARDIN AN ACT OF CONSCIENCE LIKE

ELLSBERG DID IN '71 THAT THEAMERICAN GOVERNMENT WAS

LYING TO THE POPULATIONABOUT THE VIETNAM WAR AND

EVERYONE SAID OR A LOT OFPEOPLE SAID HE IS A TRAITER,.

>> Stephen: HE LOST THEVIETNAM WAR FOR US.

>> HE REVEALED THAT THEAMERICAN GOVERNMENT KNEW

THAT IT WAS UNWINNABLE ATTHE SAME TIME THAT THEY WERE

TELLING THE POPULATION THATTHEY WERE WINNING IT.

>> Stephen: WE'LL NEVER KNOWNOW.

>> SO THAT'S THE PLAY BOOK.

>> Stephen: WE'LL NEVERKNOW.

WE MIGHT HAVE WON IF HEHADN'T SAID THAT.

>> IT'S POSSIBLE.

>> Stephen: IT UNDERMINESTHE CONFIDENCE OF THE

AMERICAN PEOPLE IN THEIR OWNGOVERNMENT, IS THAT WHAT YOU

WANT?

>> WHEN THEY ARE DOINGTHINGS THAT DESERVE TO HAVE

CONFIDENCE IN THEIR ACTIONSUNDERMINED, YEAH IT IS A

GOOD IDEA FOR THAT TO BEREVEALED.

>> Stephen: NOW THIS SNOWDENFELLOW, OKAY.

HE FLED TO RUSSIA.

DOES HE FEEL MORECOMFORTABLE THERE?

BECAUSE IT'S A REGIME THATIS TOTALLY OPEN AND FREE?

(LAUGHTER)WAS MORDOR NOT ACCEPTING

ASYLUM REQUESTS.

>> HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY FLEETO RUSSIA.

>> Stephen: HE FLED AND HE'SIN RUSSIA.

CHECKMATE.

DOW WANT TO SPIN THIS ONE.

SPIN IT-- SPIN IT.

>> HE WAS ON HIS WAY TOLATIN AMERICA, HEADING

THROUGH MOSCOW WHEN THE U.S.

GOVERNMENT REVOKED HISPASSPORT.

>> Stephen: IT IS EASY,PEOPLE GET LOST THAT WAY ALL

THE TIME.

>> YOU JUST SKIP RIGHT OVER.

>> Stephen: THE POINT ISUSING ASYLUM IS NOT TO

DECLARE WHAT COUNTRY YOULOVE THE MOST, IT'S TO GET

PROTECTION FROM YOUR OWNGOVERNMENT WHEN THEY ARE

TRYING TO PERSECUTE YOU SUCHAS PUTTING YOU IN PRISON FOR

40 YEARS FOR COMING FORWARDWITH INFORMATION THAT HIS

FELLOW CITIZENS OUGHT TOHAVE KNOWN.

>> Stephen: HIS FELLOWCITIZENS NEEDED TO KNOW THIS,

THAT IS THE ARGUMENT.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU FORYOUR SUPPORT.

HOW ABOUT THESE THINGS DIDHIS FELLOW CITIZENS NEED TO

KNOW WE WERE ALSO SPYING ON THERUSSIAN AND CHINESE ARMY OR

MEXICO OR THE AL QAEDA LINKISLAMIC STATE OF IRAQ OR THE

AFGHAN MINISTRY OF FOREIGNAFFAIRS OR HASAN BULE WIFE

WHO IS AN ASSOCIATE OF OSAMABIN LADEN, ALL THOSE THINGS

WERE REVEALED AS WELL.

HOW IS THAT NOT GIVEN AWAYAMERICAN STATE SECRETS OR

DO YOU BELIEVE THERE SHOULDNO ESPIONAGE?

>> NO THERE SHOULD BE ESPIONAGE

HE ACTUALLY DIDN'T REVEALANY OF THAT.

WHAT HE DID WAS HE CAME TONEWSPAPERS AND SAID I WANT

YOU TO VET THIS INFORMATIONAND DISCLOSE WHAT IT IS, THE

PUBLIC OUGHT TO KNOW ANDWITHHOLD THAT WHICH THEY

SHOULD'NT.

MOST OF THOSE-- MOST OFTHOSE STORIES THAT YOU JUST

REFERENCED WERE PUBLISHED BYTHE NEWSPAPER CALLED "THE

NEW YORK TIMES" FOR WHICH HEACTUALLY GAVE NO DOCUMENTS.

>> Stephen: DON'T USE "THENEW YORK TIMES" IN DEFENSE

OF ME.

YOU BELIEVE-- YOU BELIEVETHEY DID THE RIGHT THING BY

PUBLISHING THAT.

>> I DO.

>> Stephen: YOU DO.

>> I DO.

>> Stephen: YOU BELIEVE THEUNITED STATES'S SECRETS OF

OUR INTELLIGENCE APPARATUSSHOULD BE REVEALED.

>> THE PRIVACY RIGHTS OFAMERICAN CITIZENS MATTER A

GREAT DEAL.

>> Stephen: THESE AREN'TAMERICAN CITIZENS.

>> THE PRIVACY RIGHTS OFNONAMERICANS, THE PRIVACY

RIGHTS OF-- .

>> Stephen: ITS PRIVACYRIGHTS OF NONAMERICANS DON'T

HAVE PRIVACY RIGHTS.

>> THEY DO, DO, THEY DO.

>> Stephen: NO, THEY DON'T.

IF THEY WANT PRIVACY RIGHTSTHEY SHOULD BECOME AMERICAN

CITIZENS AND GIVE THEM UP.

>> THAT IS ONE THEORY.

THE OTHER THEORY IS THAT THEINTERNET IS THIS GLOBAL

MEANS OF COMMUNICATION AND IFTHE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT

IS INVADING IT, TURNING ITINTO THIS MASS UBIQIOUTIOUS

SYSTEM OF SURVEILLANCE WHICHTHEY ARE

DOING YOU REALLY CAN'TSEGREGATE WHAT THEY ARE

DOING TO AMERICANS VERSUSNONAMERICANS IT MAKES THE

INTERNET WEAKENED IT MAKESIT SO THAT ALL

COMMUNICATIONS THAT TAKEPLACE ELECTRONICALLY OVER

THE INTERNET ARE KNOWN TOTHE NSA, COLLECTED, MONITORED

AND STORED AND THAT IS WHATSNOWDEN THINKS WE SHOULD

HAVE KNOWN ABOUT AND IFIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT

ANYONE WOULD SAY WE WOULDREMAIN BETTER OFF TO REMAIN

IGNORANT OF WHAT OUR OWNGOVERNMENT IS DOING TO THE

INTERNET.

>> Stephen: THESE ARE NOTALL INTERNET.

>> THEY ARE TELEPHONE,INTERNET.

>> Stephen: TELEPHONE ISN'TINTERNET.

>> GOOD POINT.

>> Stephen: DID I JUST WINTHE ARGUMENT.

>> YOU WON THAT PART OF THEARGUMENT.

>> Stephen: THANK YOU VERYMUCH.

>> CON GATTLATIONS.

>> Stephen: WHERE IS MYPULITZER?

(LAUGHTER)HOLD ON ONE SECOND.

WE'VE GOT TO GO TO ACOMMERCIAL BREAK.

BUT WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITHMORE GLENN GREENWALD.

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