Germany's NSA Outrage - Mark Mazzetti

  • Aired:  10/28/13
  •  | Views: 22,537

"The Way of the Knife" author Mark Mazzetti weighs in on the NSA spying revelations, from their effect on diplomatic relations to their impact on journalism. (4:40)

(LAUGHTER)I JUST HOPE THE EUROPEANS CAN

FIND IN THE THEIR HEARTS TOTRUST US AGAIN SO THEY'LL START

TALKING ABOUT THINGS ON THEPHONE THAT ARE WORTH LISTENING

TO.

HERE TO TELL ME IF THEY EVERWILL IS PULITZER PRIZE WINNING

NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENTFOR THE "NEW YORK TIMES" MARK

MAZZETTI.

MARK, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEINGHERE.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)GOOD TO SEE YOU.

OKAY, YOU ARE THE AUTHOR OF "THEC.I.A. SECRET ARMY AND WAR AT

THE ENDS OF THE EARTH CALLED THEWAY OF THE KNIFE."

SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS.

ARE WE DOING THIS?

>> YEAH, IT SEEMS THAT CERTAINLYTHE U.S. IS DOING PRETTY MUCH

MOST OF WHAT HAS BEEN REPORTEDOVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS,

INCLUDING AS HAD BEEN REPORTEDIN THE LAST COUPLE DAYS, THE

SPYING ON DOZENS OF WORLDLEADERS THAT -- AND IT COULD BE

MORE.

>> IS THAT NORMAL?

HAVE WE BEEN DOING THIS FOR ALONG TIME OR IS THIS THE SORT OF

THING THAT OBAMA STARTED?

>> I DON'T THINK OBAMA STARTEDIT.

I THINK IT WAS GOING ON BEFOREOBAMA.

IT WAS CLEARLY GOING ON DURINGPRESIDENT BUSH.

>> Stephen: OKAY, BECAUSE HESAYS HE DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS

HAPPENING.

DO WE BELIEVE THAT?

>> WELL, IT'S -- IT'S HARD TOIMAGINE THE PRESIDENT DIDN'T

KNOW ALL OF THESE LEADERS'COMMUNICATIONS HAD BEEN TAPPED.

>> Stephen: THE ULTIMATEQUESTION IS, IS OBAMA BLAMELESS

OR CLUELESS?

(LAUGHTER)>> WELL, YOU'RE SEEING REAL

SNIPING GOING ON BETWEEN THEWHITE HOUSE AND THE N.S.A. ABOUT

WHETHER THE N.S.A. IS THIS ROGUEORGANIZATION OR WHETHER THIS WAS

ALL APPROVED AT THE HIGHESTLEVELS.

>> Stephen: IS IT POSSIBLETHERE'S SOMEBODY HIGHER THAN

OBAMA THAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT?

>> NOT THAT I KNOW OF, NO.

>> Stephen: IS THERE ANYTHINGWRONG WITH DOING THIS?

I SAY BIG WHOOP.

>> WELL, IS THE RISK OF GETTINGCAUGHT WORTHWHILE?

>> Stephen: IT'S BETTER TO NOTKNOW WHAT ANGIE MERKEL IS

TALKING ABOUT ON HER CELL PHONE.

>> THE QUESTION IS WHAT ARE YOUGAINING FROM IT?

AND NOW THAT THEY'VE BEEN CAUGHTWHAT IS THE DAMAGE GOING TO BE?

SOME OF THIS IS FOR POLITICAL --DOMESTIC CONSUMPTION IN GERMANY

AND FRANCE BUT THERE DOES SEEMTO BE GENUINE SURPRISE AMONG

THESE LEADERS.

>> Stephen: SOME OF IT IS FORDOMESTIC CONSUMPTION.

SOME OF THIS OUTRAGE IS JUST TOMAKE PEOPLE AT HOME FEEL NICE

ABOUT THEIR LEADER OBJECTING TOUS SPYING ON THEM?

>> THEY CAN'T SAY THEY'RE HAPPYABOUT IT SO THEY HAVE TO SAY

THEY'RE ANGRY ABOUT IT BECAUSETHERE IS ANGER ABOUT IT.

>> Stephen: DON'T THE GERMANSSOUND LIKE THEY'RE ANGRY ABOUT

EVERYTHING?

(LAUGHTER)EASY FOR THEM.

>> Stephen: .

>> WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHAT THATCONVERSATION WAS BETWEEN MERKEL

AND OBAMA.

>> Stephen: HERE'S MYATTITUDE: THE UNITED STATES HAS

TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OFRELATIONSHIPS WITH COUNTRIES

AROUND THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.

EITHER YOU'RE TECHNOLOGICALLYADVANCED FOR US TO SPY ON

EVERYTHING YOU'RE DOING,LISTENING TO YOUR PHONE CALLS,

SENDING YOU MESSAGES THROUGHYOUR MICROWAVE OR YOU LIVE

SOMEPLACE THAT'S FULL OF SANDAND ROCKS AND WE BLOW YOU UP

WITH DRONES.

(LAUGHTER)SO THEY SHOULD BE THANKING US

FOR NOT SENDING OVER OUR OTHERTECHNOLOGY.

(LAUGHTER)>> SOMEONE SHOULD TELL HER THAT.

>> Stephen: EXACTLY.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)BUT THIS IS A ONE-WAY STREET,

RIGHT?

WE SPY ON THEM, THEY DON'T SPYUS ON, RIGHT?

>> WELL, EVERYONE SPIES PRETTYMUCH ON EACH OTHER.

THE UNITED STATES HAS A ARELATIONSHIP WITH A GROUP OF

ENGLISH SPEAKING COUNTRIES WHERETHERE IS A NO SPYING

ARRANGEMENT.

>> Stephen: THERE ARE ENGLISHSPEAKING COUNTRIES WE DON'T SPY

ON?

>> YES.

>> Stephen: I CAN THINK OF ONEENGLISH SPEAKING COUNTRY WE

DON'T SPY ON.

(WHISPERS)>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

>> Stephen: WE DON'T HAVE THATDEAL WITH OURSELVES YET.

WHAT ABOUT LIKE FRANCE?

WE SPY ON THEM.

>> WE SPY ON THEM; THEY SPY ONUS.

>> Stephen: THEY SPY ON US?

WHY AREN'T WE BOMBING THELOUVRE?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

(LAUGHTER)YOU'RE A NATIONAL SECURITY

CORRESPONDENT.

DOES THIS MAKE YOUR JOB HARDER,ALL THESE N.S.A. SNOWDEN LEAKS?

ARE PEOPLE LESS LIKELY TO TALKNOW?

>> THERE HAS BEEN A SUCCESSIONOF LEAK PROSECUTIONS AND TRYING

TO CLAMP DOWN ON THE INFORMATIONREPORTERS GET.

SO OVER THE COURSE OF A YEAR,YEAR AND A HALF, IT'S BEEN

HARDER FOR NATIONAL SECURITYREPORTERS TO DO THEIR JOBS

BECAUSE OF THIS CLIMATE OFINVESTIGATION.

>> WHEN YOU CALL PEOPLE UP FORSOURCES ON A NATIONAL SECURITY

STORY DO THEY SAY "NO, MARKMAZZETTI, I'M NOT INTERESTING IN

TALKING TO YOU, I LOVE MYCOUNTRY!"

CLICK.

>> Stephen: THERE IS SOME OFTHAT.

YOU HAVE THESE VERY STRANGECONVERSATIONS WHERE PEOPLE SAY

"WHOEVER'S LISTENING TO THISCALL LET IT BE KNOWN I'M NOT

REVEALING CLASSIFIEDINFORMATION.

>> Stephen: WHOEVER'S WATCHINGTHIS SHOW I'M NOT REVEALING

CLASSIFIED INFORMATION.

MARK MAZZETTI, THANK YOU SOMUCH.

"THE WAY OF THE KNIFE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH."

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