David Boies & Theodore B. Olson

  • Aired:  06/17/14
  •  | Views: 17,669

Attorneys David Boies and Theodore B. Olson discuss their advocacy for same-sex marriage rights and their book "Redeeming the Dream." (7:08)

>> Stephen: WELCOME BACK,EVERYBODY.

MY GUESTS TONIGHT ARE THE LEGALTEAM WHO FOUGHT TO STRIKE DOWN

CALIFORNIA'S SAME-SEX MARRIAGEBAN.

GREAT, NOW SAN FRANCISCO WILLSEEM TOTALLY GAY.

PLEASE WELCOME DAVID BOIES ANDTED OLSON.

[CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]GOOD TO SEE YOU.

MR. OLSON.

MR. BOIES, GOOD TO HAVE YOUBACK.

DAVID, GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK.

TED, WONDERFUL TO HAVE YOU ONFOR THE FIRST TIME.

I WANTED TO HAVE YOU ON FOR ALONG TIME NOW.

>> GLAD TO BE HERE FINALLY.

>> Stephen: PLEASURE. NOW YOUTWO, I

HAVE A BONE TO PICK WITH YOU TWOGENTLEMEN.

YOUR FREE RIDE IS OVER ON THISGAY ISSUE, OK?

BUT FIRST TELL THE PEOPLE WHOYOU ARE.

LET'S SEE, DAVID BOIES, THEODOREOLSON, PROMINENT LAWYERS IN THE

COUNTRY.

YOU'VE ARGUED OVER 70 CASESBEFORE THE SUPREME COURT,

INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES V.

MICROSOFT, THE CITIZENS UNITEDCASE, BUSH V. GORE AND ON

OPPOSITE SIDES.

YOU'RE TRADITIONALLY CONSIDEREDA LIBERAL.

YOU'RE CONSIDERED ACONSERVATIVE.

NOW, YOU TWO HAVE GOT A NEW BOOKCALLED "REDEEMING THE DREAM: THE

CASE FOR MARRIAGE EQUALITY."

THIS DESCRIBES THE BATTLE TO GETMARRIAGE EQUALITY ALL ACROSS THE

UNITED STATES, BUT FOR YOU GUYSSPECIFICALLY THE PROP 8 CASE WAS

THE LINCHPIN.

>> EXACTLY.

>> Stephen: HOW CAN THE TWO OFYOU BE FRIENDS?

[LAUGHTER]YOU FOUGHT ON EITHER SIDE OF

BUSH V. GORE.

ALL RIGHT.

YOU FOUGHT FOR GORE.

YOU FOUGHT FOR BUSH.

>> AND HE ACCEPTED THE OUTCOMEGRACIOUSLY.

>> I'M A VERY FORGIVING PERSON.

>> Stephen: I GOT A QUESTIONON THAT ONE.

BUSH V. GORE: GREAT SUPREMECOURT DECISION OR THE GREATEST

SUPREME COURT DECISION?

TED, I'LL LET YOU ANSWER.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, THE SUPREME COURTDECIDES IT, AND THEY DECIDED

THAT BUSH WON THAT CASE AND WONTHAT ELECTION.

AND I THINK IT WAS A VERY SOLIDDECISION.

OF COURSE, I MAY BE A LITTLE BITBIASED, BUT I THINK DAVID AGREES

ACTUALLY.

>> Stephen: I'M AFRAID WEDON'T HAVE TIME FOR HIS ANSWER,

BUT...

>> THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE COURTSAID.

[CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]>> Stephen: YOU CAME TOGETHER

TO FIGHT FOR GAY OR SAME-SEXMARRIAGE RIGHTS.

AND YOU'VE WON EVERY CASE SOFAR.

[CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]WHAT IS SO COMPELLING ABOUT YOUR

ARGUMENT THAT YOU WOULD COMETOGETHER FROM DIFFERENT SIDES OF

THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM TO FIGHTFOR THIS?

>> THE THING THAT INFLUENCEDDAVID AND ME THE MOST I THINK IS

THAT WE'RE IN A COUNTRYDISCRIMINATING AGAINST OUR

FELLOW CITIZENS.

OUR NEIGHBORS AND OUR CHILDRENAND OUR COWORKERS, WE'RE

DISCRIMINATING AGAINST THEM.

WE'RE TELLING THEM THAT THEY'RENOT ENTITLED TO BE TREATED THE

SAME AND TO HAVE THE SAME RIGHTSAND PRIVILEGES AND

DISADVANTAGES.

>> Stephen: WE TREAT THEM THESAME.

NONE OF THEM CAN GET MARRIED TOEACH OTHER.

THAT'S CALLED EQUAL PROTECTION.

ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THATCLAUSE?

>> THAT'S EXACTLY...

>> WE WANT THEM TO BE EQUAL TOUS.

>> Stephen: THE WHOLE REASON IGOT MARRIED WAS AS A TAUNT TO

GAY PEOPLE, THAT THEY COULD NOTGET MARRIED.

IT HARMS MY MARRIAGE.

IT HARMS MY MARRIAGE.

>> EVERY STATE THIS SPREADS TOGETS CLOSER AND CLOSER TO MY

HOUSE.

>> IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY'REALREADY THERE.

THEY'RE ALREADY LIVINGNEXT TO YOUR HOUSE.

>> ARE YOU MAKING A LIST OFPROMINENT GAY PEOPLE?

>> THEY ARE YOUR NEIGHBORS.

THEY ARE YOUR FRIENDS.

THEY ARE YOUR COWORKERS.

THEY ARE PEOPLE WHO WORK FORYOU HERE WHO WISH TO HAVE THE

SAME RIGHTS AND OPPORTUNITIESTHAT THE REST OF US DO.

>> Stephen: BUT DOESN'TSOCIETY GET TO CREATE MORAL

STANDARDS?

DON'T WE AS A SOCIETY GET TOCREATE OUR OWN MORAL STANDARDS,

AND HAVEN'T GAY PEOPLE, YOUKNOW, NICE PEOPLE OR NOT NICE

PEOPLE, BECAUSE NOT ALL OF THEMARE NICE, LET'S FACE IT.

>> THEY'RE JUST PEOPLE.

>> Stephen: EXCEPT THE REST OFUS ARE OBEYING A WESTERN MORAL

STANDARD.

>> WHAT'S IMMORAL ABOUT BEINGMARRIED?

>> MARRIED TO ANOTHER GUY.

WE JUST HAD A SECTION ON THESHOW TALKING ABOUT HOW GAY

MARRIAGE IS SPREADING AND EVENSCOTT WALKER IS UNWILLING TO

EXPRESS HIS OPINION.

NOW YOU'RE ON.

OKAY.

THAT FITS TOGETHER LIKE A MALESOCKET AND FEMALE SOCKET, OKAY.

BUT A MALE SOCKET AND MALESOCKET TOGETHER, NO ELECTRICITY.

YOU UNDERSTAND?

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? DO YOUUNDERSTAND HOW ELECTRICITY

WORKS?

>> NOT A LOT, BUT, YOU SEE, IFIT WASN'T ELECTRICITY, THEN THEY

WOULDN'T WANT TO GET MARRIED.

WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT PEOPLEWHO ARE IN LOVE, COMMITTED

COUPLES WHO HAVE BEEN TOGETHERIN SOME CASES 10, 20, 30 YEARS.

PEOPLE WHO ARE RAISING FAMILIES.

AND PEOPLE WHO SIMPLY WANT TOHAVE THE SAME RECOGNITION FOR

THOSE UNIONS, THE SAMERECOGNITION FOR THEIR CHILDREN

THAT THEY'RE RAISING THATEVERYBODY ELSE HAS.

ALL THEY WANT IS THE OPPORTUNITYTO HAVE THE SAME FAMILY VALUES,

THE SAME OPENNESS, THE SAMERECOGNITION IN THEIR COMMUNITY

THAT EVERYBODY, GAY, STRAIGHT,BLACK, WHITE, REPUBLICAN,

DEMOCRAT, EVERYBODY WANTS THAT.

THAT'S ALL THAT THEY'RE ASKINGFOR.

>> Stephen: IS THIS THEARGUMENT BEING MADE BEFORE THE

SUPREME COURT?

>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELLYOU'RE CHEERING FOR.

WHOSE SIDE ARE YOU ON?

>> THE ARGUMENT WE MADE BEFORETHE SUPREME COURT IS EXACTLY

THAT.

IN THIS COUNTRY, WE BELIEVE THATALL CITIZENS ARE CREATED EQUAL,

THAT THEY HAVE EQUALOPPORTUNITIES.

THEY HAVE EQUALRESPONSIBILITIES.

AND GAY AND LESBIAN PEOPLE, WHOCONSIST OF A LARGE PART OF OUR

POPULATION, ARE TREATEDDIFFERENTLY IN CALIFORNIA AND

THE PLACES WE WERE TALKING ABOUTBEFORE WE WON IN THE SUPREME

COURT.

TO CHANGE THE RULES INCALIFORNIA.

THEY WERE PERCEIVED ASSECOND-GLASS CITIZENS.

THEIR RELATIONSHIPS DIDN'TCOUNT.

IT WAS DAMAGING TO THEM ANDDAMAGING TO THEIR CHILDREN.

AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'STRIVIAL.

IT MATTERS A GREAT DEAL ANDEVERYONE'S LIFE ALL OF THE TIME.

>> Stephen: YOU'RE ACONSERVATIVE.

YOU'RE A LIBERAL.

THE TWO OF YOU HAVE DIFFERENTPOLITICAL OPINIONS AND YET

YOU'RE FRIENDS, BUT AT THE SAMETIME, YOU HAVE DIFFERENT

POLITICAL OPINIONS AND ARE STILLFRIENDS.

THAT'S UNNATURAL IN AMERICATHESE DAYS.

IT'S LIKE SOMEONE WHO LOVESCOFFEE TOLERATING SOMEONE WHO

DRINKS TEA.

WHERE IS YOUR MIDDLE GROUND?

>> WE'RE TRYING TO START A TRENDTHAT WOULD REQUIRE FOR INVOLVED

PEOPLE ACTUALLY LISTENING TOSOMEBODY WHO HAS A DIFFERENT

OPINION, ESPECIALLY OVER FINEWINE.

>> Stephen: OH, NOT IN ADIFFERENCE OF OPINION OTHER FINE

WINE BUT DRINKING ENOUGH THATTHE DIFFERENCES DON'T MATTER.

>> YES.

>>>> Stephen: DAVE, THANK YOU SO

MUCH.

TED, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

DAVID BOIES AND THEODORE OLSON,"REDEEMING THE DREAM."

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

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