Carne Ross

  • Aired:  05/01/12
  •  | Views: 4,264

Carne Ross discusses his book "The Leaderless Revolution: How Ordinary People Will Take Power and Change Politics in the 21st Century." (6:08)

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

>> Stephen: WELCOME BACK,

EVERYBODY.

THANKS VERY MUCH.

MY GUEST TONIGHT PROPOSES A NEW FORM OF GOVERNMENT.

I HOPE IT'S A POPPY-OCRACY.

THAT WOULD BE ADORABLE.

PLEASE WELCOME CARNE ROSS!

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE) MR. ROSS, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ALL RIGHT, SIR.

NOW YOU ARE AN ECONOMIST,

CORRECT?

>> ORIGINALLY, YES.

>> Stephen: ORIGINALLY AN ECONOMIST AND NOW YOU'RE A FORMER SENIOR BRITISH DIPLOMATIC

OFFICIAL AND YOU LEFT SERVICE IN THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT AFTER YOU HAD TESTIFIED SECRETLY THAT BUSH

AND BLAIR SAID IT WAS MORE OF A THREAT THAN IRAQ MAYBE WAS.

>> YES.

>> Stephen: SO YOU ARE A TRAITOR?

(LAUGHTER)

>> A LITTLE BIT, YEAH, THEY THOUGHT ABOUT PROSECUTING ME BUT THEY DIDN'T.

>> Stephen: YOU HAVE A NEW BOOK HERE THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH.

IT'S CALLED "THE LEADERLESS REVOLUTION: HOW ORDINARY PEOPLE WILL TAKE POWER AND CHANGE

POLITICS IN THE 21st CENTURY." LEADERLESS REVOLUTION.

THAT'S CALLED CHAOS.

(LAUGHTER) THAT'S CALLED ANARCHY.

YOU WANT NO LEADERS.

HAVE YOU EVER BEEN IN A THEATER COMPANY?

(LAUGHTER) THAT'S FIVE HOURS TO DECIDE WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE DINNER.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN LEADERLESS?

>> WELL, I THINK THE GOVERNMENT AS IT'S CONSTITUTED IS NOT WORKING.

>> Stephen: WHOSE GOVERNMENT?

YOUR GOVERNMENT?

THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT?

I ADMIT THAT WHOLE QUEEN THING IS CRAZY.

>> I'M APPLYING FOR AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP.

>> Stephen: GOOD LUCK WITH THAT,

BUDDY, THIS AIN'T GONE THAT HELP.

THIS AIN'T GONNA HELP.

BUT ALL RIGHT.

OUR GOVERNMENT ISN'T WORKING?

IT'S WORKING FOR ME.

>> WHEN YOU SAY THAT LEADERLESSNESS, AN ARKY IS A THREAT OF TALES BUT I BELIEVE

THE CURRENT SYSTEM AS IT'S CURRENTLY CONSTITUTES,

REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT, THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM IS THE INCREASING VOLATILITY.

SO BASICALLY GREATER CHAOS THAN AN ALTERNATIVE SYSTEM MIGHT BE.

>> Stephen: I'M A BUSINESSMAN,

OKAY.

YOU A BUSINESSMAN?

>> NO.

>> Stephen: OKAY, I GOT YOU.

I'M A BUSINESSMAN.

WHAT WE LIKE IS TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TOMORROW BECAUSE

THAT KIND OF STABILITY IS HOW WE MAKE OUR PLANS.

I KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE GOVERNMENT, OKAY?

MY GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO BE PRO-BUSINESS.

THAT'S WHAT I KNOW.

I KNOW WHO THE LEADERS ARE BECAUSE I HELPED THEM GET INTO THE OFFICE BECAUSE I HAVE A SUPER PAC.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE) WITHOUT ANY LEADER, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TOMORROW.

EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN AMERICA IS GOING TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT.

>> WELL, I THINK THAT WOULD BE RATHER WONDERFUL IN A WAY.

I THINK DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN CO-OPTED.

IT'S NOT REALLY OF THE PEOPLE,

IT'S NOT REALLY BY THE PEOPLE AND THEREFORE IT'S NOT REALLY

FOR THE PEOPLE AND I BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD ACTUALLY BE BY PEOPLE.

THAT THEY SHOULD TAKE ACTION THEMSELVES.

>> Stephen: THEY ARE BY PEOPLE BECAUSE IN AMERICA CORPORATIONS ARE LEGALLY PEOPLE.

(LAUGHTER) OKAY?

>> THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM.

I THINK WHOEVER YOU VOTE FOR IT'S CLEAR THE GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN CO-OPTED AND THERE ARE MUCH

BETTER MODELS, FOR INSTANCE, IN A CITY OF BRAZIL, WHERE LITERALLY EVERYBODY PARTICIPATES

IN DECISION MAKING THROUGH MASS FORUMS, DEBATES ON HOW TO SET A BUDGET.

>> Stephen: I WENT DOWN TO THESE THESE GUYS, THEY'RE LIKE I LIKE

IT, I DON'T LIKE IT, I'M NOT SURE ABOUT IT.

>> IT'S CALLED PARTICIPATORY DEMOCRACY.

>> Stephen: EVERYTHING TAKES FOREVER.

THIS IS A FAST-PACED INTERNET WORLD.

>> IF YOU LOOK AT WASHINGTON TODAY IT TAKES FOREVER ALREADY.

I THINK THAT COULD BE IMPROVED ON.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

>> I PREFER TO THINK NOTHING GETS DONE AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT.

DO YOU LIKE THOSE OCCUPY PEOPLE?

YOU WORK WITH THOSE OCCUPY PEOPLE?

>> YEAH, I LIKE THEM VERY MUCH AND I'VE BEEN TO THE DEMONSTRATIONS SINCE THE EARLY

DAYS DAYS AND SINCE THEN I'M PART OF A WORKING GROUP THAT'S

BEEN TRYING TO SET UP AN OCCUPY BANK THAT WOULD ACTUALLY REPLACE THE CURRENT BANKING SYSTEM NO

LESS BECAUSE I BELIEVE AND I THINK OTHER GROUP MEMBERS BELIEVE IS THAT WALL STREET

PEOPLE, DISSIDENTD FROM THE SYSTEM THAT YOU CAN'T REFORM THE CURRENT SYSTEM.

YOU CAN'T LOOK TO WASHINGTON TO REFORM THE CURRENT SYSTEM THEREFORE YOU HAVE TO SET UP AN

ALTERNATIVE SYSTEM THAT WOULD BE BETTER THAT'S THE THEORY OF CHANGE WE HAVE IN OUR GROUP.

>> Stephen: HOW MANY PEOPLE DO WE HAVE IN THIS GROUP?

>> IT'S QUITE SMALL.

(LAUGHTER)

>> Stephen: DO YOU HAVE A LEADER?

>> IT'S LEADERLESS.

WE HAVE IDEAS AND WE WORK TOGETHER.

WE'VE BEEN WORKING TOGETHER FOR ABOUT SIX MONTHS.

IT'S SOMETIMES RATHER DULL BUT WE'RE MAKING PROGRESS.

WE'VE HAMMERED OUT AN IDEA OF WHAT A BANK WOULD LOOK LIKE.

>> Stephen: DO YOU EVER THINK TO YOURSELF IN ONE OF THESE

MEETINGS "I THINK MY IDEA IS THE BEST IDEA." (LAUGHTER)

>> OF COURSE I DO.

>> Stephen: THAT'S WHAT A LEADER DOES.

>> Stephen: THEY DON'T FOLLOW,

THAT'S THE THING.

OCCUPY IS A LEADERLESS MOVEMENT,

THAT'S WHAT GIVES IT SUCH POWER.

NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO SPEAK FOR IT.

IT'S ABOUT MANY THINGS, NOT ONE THING.

>> Stephen: DO YOU THINK IF THE SYSTEM IS CORRUPT AS YOU THINK AND YOU MAKE SOME HEADWAY WITH

YOUR LEADERLESS REVOLUTION THAT YOU'LL BE ROUNDED UP AND SENT SOMEPLACE?

BECAUSE IN A REAL REVOLUTION THAT OFTEN HAPPENS TO PEOPLE THAT TAKE THE FIRST MOVE TO

CHANGE THE SYSTEM.

THEY GET ROUNDED UP AND NEVER SEEN AGAIN.

>> WELL, I THINK WE WORRY AS A GROUP THAT IF WE'RE SUCCESSFUL WE'LL GET PUSHBACK.

AT THE MOMENT IT IS BANKS ARE SITTING PRETTY.

THEY DON'T THINK OCCUPY WILL CHANGE THINGS.

THEY SEE IT AS A DEMONSTRATION AND THEY'RE LOOKING DOWN FROM THEIR SKYSCRAPERS FEELING PRETTY COMFORTABLE.

BUT IF WE SET UP AN ALTERNATIVE BANK THAT PEOPLE FLOCK TO BECAUSE IT'S BETTER, IT'S

CHEAPER, FAIRER, REACHES OUT TO THE POOR, EVERYBODY WHO HAS ANIS A MEMBER, THAT WOULD BE A BETTER

BANK THAN WHAT WE'RE CURRENTLY OPERATING.

>> Stephen: I HATE TO TELL YOU,

WE TRIED BANKS THAT REACHED OUT TO THE POOR, THEY'RE CALLED SUBPRIME LOANS, AND IT DIDN'T

WORK OUT.

(AUDIENCE REACTS)

>> WELL, THAT WAS MORE ABOUT EXPLOITING THE POOR.

>> Stephen: WELL,

POTATO-POTAHTO.

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