Charles Murray

  • Aired:  03/27/12
  •  | Views: 14,309

Charles Murray talks about his book, "Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960 to 2010," and suggests a way to address the growing division between the classes. (7:24)

[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE]

WELCOME BACK, EVERYBODY.

MY GUEST TONIGHT HAS WRITTEN A BOOK WITH THE STATE OF WHITE AMERICA.

FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS IT'S BEEN A STATE OF SHOCK.

PLEASE WELCOME CHARLES MURRAY.

[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE]W MR. MURRAY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING ON.

MR., DOCTOR, WHAT ARE WE TALKING HERE?

>> CHARLES IS FINE WITH ME.

>> CHUCK.

>> CHARLIE EVEN.

>> YOUR CV IS IMPRESSIVE.

THE AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE, THE AUTHOR OF SUCH BOOK AS LOSING GROUND AND THE BELL CURVE.

THE NEW BOOK IS CALLED "COMING APART: THE STATE OF WHITE AMERICA 1960 TO 2010."

ALL RIGHT.

[ LAUGHTER ]

THIS BOOK IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT TO ME BECAUSE I AM WHITE AMERICA.

ALL RIGHT?

I'M DEFAULT WHITE AMERICAN.

ARE YOU A WHITE GUY.

I DON'T SEE RACE.

COULD YOU TELL ME YOU ABWHITE --

>> I COME FROM SMALLTOWN IOWA.

IT GETS NO WHITER THAN THAT.

>> STEPHEN: WHAT IS THE STATE OF WHITE AMERICA, SIR?

>> WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM.

>> STEPHEN: OKAY.

WHO IS THE PROBLEM?

WHO CAN WE BLAME.

>> JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY.

WE'VE GOT PROBLEMS AT THE TOP AND THE BOTTOM AS WELL.

THE SHORT STORY IS THIS: WE HAVE DEVELOPED CLASSES IN THIS COUNTRY THAT ARE DIFFERENT IN

KIND FROM ANYTHING WE'VE EVER KNOWN BEFORE IF THIS KEEPS ON AMERICA IS NOT GOING TO BE THE

AMERICA WE KNEW.

>> STEPHEN: WHAT ARE THE TWO DIFFERENT CLASSES.

JUST TALK ABOUT WHITE PEOPLE,

PLEASE.

>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOTHING BUT WHITE PEOPLE.

>> STEPHEN: MY KIND OF BOOK.

[ LAUGHTER ]

>> FIRST AN UPPER CLASS.

IT'S INCREASINGLY ISOLATED FROM AND IGNORANT ABOUT MAINSTREAM

AMERICA AND YOU'VE GOT A NEW LOWER CLASS THAT IS DYING AWAY FROM ALL KINDS OF INSTITUTIONS

THAT USED TO BE CENTRAL TO THE WAY THAT AMERICA FUNCTIONED.

>> STEPHEN: WHAT IS IT SO -- SO THE UPPER COMPLAS IS LIKE WHO?

WHO ARE WE TALKING HERE?

I'M A RICH GUY.

IS THAT ME.

>> IT'S PEOPLE WITH INFLUENCE OVER THE NATION'S POLITICS,

ECONOMY.

>> STEPHEN: THAT'S ME, YOU,

GUYS LIKE US.

>> AND CULTURE.

>> STEPHEN: COME ON.

GUYS LIKE YOU AND ME WE'RE ONE GROUP.

WHAT IS THIS OTHER GROUP YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT OF WHITE PEOPLE?

>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A PROBLEM FOCUSED IN THE WORKING CLASS.

WE'RE TALKING HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION, BLUE COLLAR JOBS AND SO FORTH.

WE'VE HAD INCREDIBLE CHANGES OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS.

QUICK EXAMPLE, MARRIAGE.

CENTRAL CULTURAL INSTITUTIONS,

1960, 84% OF ALL WHITE ADULTS IN THE WORKING CLASS WERE MARRIED.

IT'S THE NORM.

BY 2010 THAT'S DOWN TO 48% FEWER THAN THAT HALF.

IT'S A DIVERGENCE BETWEEN CLASSES.

BECAUSE THE UPPER MIDDLE CLASS IS MARRIED, JUST ABOUT THE SAME RACE IT IEWSESSED TO BE.

>> THE UPPER CLASS HAS A STRONGER DEDICATION TO MARRIAGE?

>> YOU HAVE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

AN UPPER MIDDLE CLASS WHICH IS A LOT OF PEOPLE.

PROFESSIONALS.

BUT FUR TALKING ABOUT UPPER CLASS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER THEY RUN THE COUNTRY AND

THEY INCREASINGLY DON'T HAVE THE LEAST IDEA HOW MOST AMERICANS LIVE.

THEY LIVE IN A BUBBLE IN MANY CASES.

>> STEPHEN: WE PAY A LOT OF MONEY TO STAY IN THE BUBBLE.

>> IT COSTS A LOT.

>> SURE, DOES.

>> THE MORE MONEY YOU MAKE THE THICKER IT GETS.

>> STEPHEN: ISN'T THAT GOOD BECAUSE IF I DON'T EVER SEE THE

PROBLEM OF OTHER PEOPLE, IT DOESN'T EXIST.

[ LAUGHTER ]

I DON'T READ BOOKS SO DON'T WORRY ABOUT THAT.

I'M NOT GOING TO READ BOOKS.

I DIDN'T READ ANY OF YOUR EARLIER BOOKS AND I DIDN'T READ THE BELL CURVE AND I KNOW THAT

CAUSED A KERFUFFLE OUT THERE IN THE WORLD BECAUSE PEOPLE INTERPRETED WHAT YOU WERE

SAYING, SAYING THAT THERE WERE RACIAL AND GENETIC COMPONENTS TO BLACK PEOPLE SCORING LOWER ON

INTELLIGENCE TESTS.

>> I KNOW THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE SAY.

>> STEPHEN: DID YOU NOT SAY THAT?

>> THE BOOK DID NOT SAY THAT.

>> STEPHEN: DID YOU SAY THAT?

>> I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT.

>> STEPHEN: IN THE BELL CURVE YOU CITED RESEARCHERS AND RESEARCH THAT WAS FUNDED BY

WHITE SUPREMACISTS AND NAZI GROUPS.

>> COME ON.

I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO BUT STEPHEN.

>> STEPHEN: YOU HAD 17 RESEARCHERS CONTRIBUTORS TO THE RACIST JOURNAL AND 13 SCHOLARS

WHO ARE GRANT RECIPIENTS FROM THE PIONEER FUND WHICH WAS ESTABLISHED AND RUN BUT NAZI SYMPATHIZERS.

>> IN A 980 PAGE BOOK WITH 1500 CITATIONS AND THE AUTHORS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT INCLUDE SOME

OF THE MOST EMINENT AND RESPECTED PSYCHO�� MATRICIANS.

>> STEPHEN: PSYCHO --

>> MATRICIANS.

I CAN'T TELL HOW HARD IT IS AFTER 17 YEARS TO SEE THIS NONSENSE BROUGHT UP AGAIN.

>> STEPHEN: I THINK IT'S REFRESHING FOLLOWING THIS BOOK YOU ARE WRITING A BOOK THAT

CONTAINS NO BLACK PEOPLE IN IT WHATSOEVER.

IT'S EXTREMELY REFRESHING.

>> LET'S FACE IT.

IT MADE LIFE A WHOLE LOT EASIER TO DO IT THAT WAY.

>> STEPHEN: I FIND JUST HANGING OUT WITH WHITE PEOPLE A LOT EASIER, TOO.

THOSE LOWER CLASS WHITE PEOPLE,

ARE THEY GIVING WHITE PEOPLE A BAD SAME IN BECAUSE THE WHITE PEOPLE WHO ARE PROSPEROUS, WHO

HAVE THE VALUES OF WHITE PEOPLE,

LIKE MARRIAGE, THE PRODUCT AND WORK ETHIC, THOSE PEOPLE WITH THOSE VAL YIEWS, CAN'T WE JUST

CALL THE LOWER CLASS WHITE PEOPLE NOT WHITE ANYMORE BECAUSE ARE ALL OF THEM WHITE?

SOME OF THEM MIGHT BE ITALIAN?

[ LAUGHTER ]

WHAT IS WHITE AMERICA?

>> IT'S EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT PROBLEMS OF WORKING CLASS WHITE AMERICA BECAUSE WE WANT THESE PEOPLE TO

SHAPE UP.

I'M TALKING ABOUT IT BECAUSE IF YOU GO TO WHITE WORKING CLASS AMERICA TO COMMUNITIES THERE YOU

SEE LOTS OF PEOPLE DOING EVERYTHING RIGHT.

IT'S ABOUT TIME WE GAVE VALIDATION AND REINFORCEMENT TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO

DO THE RIGHT THING.

>> STEPHEN: WHAT IS THE ANSWER?

WHAT IS THE SOLUTION?

>> EVERY IMPORTANT IMPROVEMENT IN AMERICAN LIFE HAS STARTED WITH A CULTURAL SHIFT WHERE

PEOPLE STARTED TO THINK ABOUT PROBLEMS DIFFERENTLY.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CONTRIBUTES TO CULTURAL SHIFT IS THE BOOKS.

SO THAT'S WHY I WRITE BOOKS.

>> STEPHEN: MAYBE YOU SHOULD START BLOGGING BECAUSE WHILE YOU

WRITE THEM PEOPLE DON'T READ THEM ANYMORE.

>> NO, BUT YOU KNOW TALKING ABOUT IT ON THIS SHOW IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION WHERE

PEOPLE MIGHT GET INTERESTED IN THE�� ISSUES.

>> STEPHEN: BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHY THAT IS?

>> WHY?

>> STEPHEN: WHITE AMERICA GOT THE COLBERT BUMP AS IT DOES EVERY NIGHT.

[ LAUGHTER ]

CHARLES MURRAY THANK