Gabriel Sherman

  • Aired:  01/15/14
  •  | Views: 24,667

"The Loudest Voice in the Room" author Gabriel Sherman discusses the larger-than-life personality of Roger Ailes. (5:48)

>> Stephen: WELCOME BACK,EVERYBODY, MY GUEST TONIGHT

IS THE EDITOR FROM "NEWYORK" MAGAZINE, HIS NEW BOOK

IS YOU CALLED THE LOUDESTVOICE IN THE ROOM.

EITHER THE BOOK IS ABOUT MEOR I WASN'T IN THE ROOM.

PLEASE WELCOME GABRIELSHERMAN.

THANK YOU FOR COMING ON.

>> GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> Stephen: ALL RIGHT,COULDN'T BE BOTHERED TO WEAR

A TIE. KEEPING IT CASUAL.

OKAY, YOU'RE A CONTRIBUTINGEDITOR TO "NEW YORK"

MAGAZINE AND YOUR WORK HASALSO APPEARED IN THE NEW

YORK TIMES, OBVIOUSLY YOU'VEESTABLISHED YOUR

CONSERVATIVE CREDENTIALS.

LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR FAIRAND BALANCED BOOK ABOUT

ROGER AILES, THE FOUNDER ANDCHAIRMAN OF FOX NEWS.

>> OKAY.

I HAVE SOURCES AT FOX NEWS,OKAY.

I GOT A LOT OF FRIENDS OVERTHERE.

ONE OF MY SOURCES TALKED TOME TODAY AND THIS PERSON

SAYS YOU'RE NOT A GOOD GUY.

DEFEND YOURSELF, ARE YOU AGOOD GUY?

>> WERE THEY ON THE RECORD.

>> Stephen: NO.

>> THEY WERE FOR ME, NOT FORYOU.

>> I'M A GOOD GUY.

>> Stephen: YOU'RE A GOODGUY.

>> I'M A REPORTER.

I COVERED MEDIA AND AILES ISTHE BIGGEST STORY IN MEDIA,

HE CREATED A POWERHOUSE,TWICE THE RATINGS THAT CNN

AND NBC DOES, HIS CHANNELSGENERATE A BILLION DOLLARS

OF PROFITS.

>> Stephen: THAT IS A LOT OFLUBRICATED CATHETER ADS.

SO IF YOU COVER MEDIA THISIS THE BIGGEST STORY, HE HAS

CREATED A PHENOMENON INAMERICAN CULTURE.

>> Stephen: BUT THIS IS AHIT JOB.

THIS IS WHAT MY SOURCES TELLME THIS IS A HIT JOB, OKAY

IS IT A HIT JOB.

>> IT'S NOT A HIT JOB.

>> Stephen: THEN SAYSOMETHING POSITIVE, PROVE

THAT YOU'RE NOT JUST DOING AHATCHET JOB ON ROGER AILES,

SAY SOMETHING POSITIVE ANDNICE ABOUT ROGER AILES THAT

IS IN THE BOOK.

>> WELL, FOX NEWS IS AFAMILY.

THE PEOPLE WHO WORK FORAILES LOVE HIM.

I MEAN HE IS A CHARISMATICLEADER.

WHEN HE WENT TO WORK FOR NBCTO FOX NEWS IN 1996, MORE

THAN 80 PEOPLE FOLLOWED HIMOUT THE DOOR.

THEY WERE RUSHING TO GO WORKFOR THE GUY.

AILES CALLED AN EXECUTIVE ATNBC AND SAID IT IS A JAILBREAK.

THESE GUYS COULDN'T LEAVEFAST ENOUGH TO GO WORK FOR

HIM.

SO HE IS A CHARISMATICLEADER.

>> Stephen: ALL RIGHT, THANKYOU FOR COMING BY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

AND THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE-- EVIDENTLY WE HAVE

MORE TIME, EVIDENTLY WE HAVEMORE TIME.

OKAY.

CHARISMATIC LEADER.

BUT YOU ALSO SAY HE'S ABULLY.

THAT HE'S VINDICTIVE.

IF HE IS A BULLY ANDVINDICTIVE WHY DO PEOPLE

LOVE HIM?

BECAUSE THEY LOVE HIM.

>> THEY LOVE AND THEY FEARHIM.

YOU KNOW, ONE EXECUTIVE TOLDME IN A MEETING-- .

>> Stephen: WHAT IS THEDIFFERENCE.

>> WELL, LOVE, HATE.

>> Stephen: OKAY.

>> ONE EXECUTIVE TOLD ME INA MEETING THAT THE TOP GUYS

HOPE THAT THE T-REX WON'TSEE THEM.

THEY HOPE HE DOESN'T CALL ONTHEM IN A MEETING BECAUSE HE

IS SO VOLATILE THAT THEYDON'T WANT TO BE SINGLED OUT

IN FRONT OF HIM.

AND SO THAT HE ISCHARISMATIC,

LARGER-THAN-LIFE, CITIZENKANE LIKE FIGURE WHICH IS

GREAT TO WORK FOR BUT IT ISALSO TERRIFYING.

>> Stephen: HOW MUCH TIMEDID YOU SPEND

INTERVIEWING ROGER AILES,WAS HE A GOOD GUY, DID YOU

LIKE SPENDING ALL THAT TIMEWITH HIM.

>> HE DID NOT WANT TOPARTICIPATE IN THIS BOOK.

>> Stephen: THEN HOW DO YOUKNOW WHAT HE'S LIKE? YOU

DON'T KNOW. THIS IS ALL JUSTCONJECTURE AND HEARSAY. YOU

KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MY FRIENDROGER.

>> I WENT OUT AND SPENTTHREE YEARS INTERVIEWING

MORE THAN 600 PEOPLE TO GETA NUANCED AND FULL PORTRAIT.

>> Stephen: BUT WHY DID YOUDO THAT, DIDN'T YOU LEARN

ANYTHING FROM FOX NEWS, YOUDECIDE WHAT YOU WANT THE

STORY TO BE AND JUST ONLYTALK TO THE PEOPLE WHO WILL

SUPPORT IT.

(APPLAUSE)>> I WISH JOURNALISM WAS

THAT EASY.

>> Stephen: NO, NOTJOURNALISM, JUST TALKING

ABOUT BOOKS. NOW HE IS FAMOUSLY,THE RUMOR IS THAT

ROGER, I DON'T THINK THIS ISFAIR BUT THE HUMAN

RUMOR IS THAT ROGER ISKIND OF A VINDICTIVE GUY.

YOU CROSS HIM AND IT'S GOTIME, ALL RIGHT.

HE WILL DESTROY YOU.

ARE YOU AFRAID?

ARE YOU AFRAID THAT HE WILLMAKE YOUR LIFE A LIVING HELL?

AND AM I AFRAID THAT YOUHAVE DRAGGED ME INTO YOUR

DEATH SPIRAL BY BEING ON THESHOW?

ARE WE AFRAID?

>> NO I'M NOT AFRAID.

I HAVE BEEN ATTACKED, OKAY,RELENTLESSLY ON THE INTERNET

BUT DON'T BELIEVE ANY OF IT.

>> Stephen: WHY?

WHY DOESN'T THE INTERNETHAVE AS MUCH CREDIBILITY AS

YOUR BOOK DOES?

YOU HAVE ATTACKED ROGER, HEY,HEY, I HOPE YOU ARE BOOING THE

INTERNET OR HIM.

>> I HAD A TEAM OF TWO FACTCHECKERS SPEND MORE THAN

2,000 HOURS VETTING THISBOOK BEFORE PUBLICATION.

LAST TIME I CHECKED I DON'TTHINK A LOT OF THE RIGHT

WING WEB SITES HAVE FACTCHECKS.

>> Stephen: WELL, THEY DON'TNEED TO.

THEY DON'T NEED TO.

SIR, LET ME EXPLAINSOMETHING, YOU DO NOT HAVE

TO CHECK YOUR FACTS IF YOUSTART WITH THE TRUTH.

IT'S ALL ABOUT WHAT YOUBELIEVE, RIGHT HERE.

>> Stephen: JESUS SAID THAT.

>> THEN IT'S GOSPEL.

>> Stephen: DO YOU THINKTHAT ROGER AILES ACTUALLY

BELIEVES THE THINGS THAT FOXNEWS IS PROMOTING OR DO YOU

THINK HE MOSTLY BELIEVES INCREATING REALLY GOOD

TELEVISION SHOWS FOR PEOPLETO WATCH?

>> YOU KNOW, THIS WAS THEBIG REVEAL FOR MY BOOK AFTER

THREE YEARS OF REPORTING,EVERYTHING IS REAL.

EVERYTHING THAT YOU SEE ONTHE SCREEN STARTS WITH HIM.

THERE IS A MORNING MEETING,8 A.M. IN THE MORNING, HE

GATHERS HIS TOP GUYS,MONOLOGUES ABOUT THE NEWS.

YOU KNOW, THE JOKE INSIDEFOX, THE BEST SHOW ON FOX

NEWS IS AILES'S MORNINGEDITORIAL MEETING AT 8AM. HE

WILL SAY THINGS LIKE OBAMAHATES CAPITALSIM, OBAMA IS

DESTROYING AMERICA.

NO ONE DIED FROM NUCLEARPOWER BUT 15 PEOPLE HAVE

BEEN CHOPPED UP BY THOSEDAMN WINDMILLS.

>> Stephen: WAIT A SECOND,SO-- SO AT 8 A.M. AILES SORT

OF SETS THE AGENDA FOR WHATPEOPLE WILL TALK ABOUT FOR

THE DAY.

>> YEAH.

>> Stephen: BUT FOX ANDFRIENDS STARTS AT 6 A.M. IS

THAT WHY FOR THE FIRST TWOHOURS THEY SEEM SO CONFUSED?

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)GABRIEL, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THE BOOK IS THE LOUDESTVOICE IN THE ROOM.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

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